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Debate on sex / gender to clean up kadath comic discussion Furrynomous 2021/03/28 00:12:28 No.1921144   
Kadath and his retconning of sexuality sparked a gender/sex/sexuality debate. Here's a containment topic where people can fight it out.
Expand All Images
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 02:46:13 No.1921192
Soooo....We begin with an image of a furry Rocky Horror Picture Show? Somehow I can't figure out if that was a wise choice or not
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 02:55:14 No.1921194
>>1921192
I think it encapsulates a great deal in one image. :3
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 06:17:45 No.1921250
Is it really a debate?

Sex is a physical attribute, gender is sociological. Sex has 2 variations and some mutations. Gender is a sliding scale based on multiple factors.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 07:47:53 No.1921272
>>1921250
Such as...?
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 10:56:05 No.1921331
Gender is a sliding scale based on multiple factors.

Gender is a socially constructed mapping of the two basic sexes onto social functions, positions or roles. It is basically a consensus of the people about what the sexes mean in terms of public society, without which the whole concept of "gender" would be void and meaningless. Whether one is a man or a woman is pretty clearly cut between whether you are able to function in the social role of a normal person with XX or XY chromosomes.

The "sliding scale" and "multiple factors" is a made up argument to alter and muddy the general gender dichotomy and force people to see, or pretend that they are seeing, many sexes and many genders which are not objectively observable and have no logical connection with one another - basically to make distinctions without differences and labels that refer to nothing. It also includes cases of people playing dress-up and asking everyone else to pretend along.

For example, when literally the only thing that separates a "non-binary" person from a man or a woman is the fact that they say so, it is not really so. It is not a gender - it's just a label you made up for yourself. Dressing in pink and faking a lisp for the same point doesn't make a difference: the need to act it out just goes to show how it is not real. Making up extra genders and keeping up the appearance by acting them is just theater - it's fundamentally lying to yourself and others.

There are two genders because the people can observe a clear and reliable difference between the two sexes with relatively little gray area in between. In the privacy of yourself, "gender" simply doesn't apply: there's no society to whom it would be a concern, so claiming that you're actually this gender or that gender, instead of whatever gender everyone else sees you as, is nonsense.

If you're not happy with that, I feel for you, but your preferences won't change the facts. I too would like to own a Ferrari, but I can't just forge the papers that say I own one and have it. Well, I can, but it still won't make the car appear on my driveway unless the entire society around me starts believing my fake paperwork as genuine. Imagine what I could do if I had that power? Would you grant me the power and the right to just make shit up and have other people comply?

Excluding pathological insanity and psychological problems that people might have, the whole gender problem is simply an attempt to force how other people relate to you, how they treat you, and choose by yourself what role you want to play in the society regardless of the society itself. It's social power politics.

Is it really a debate?

For as long as two sides with different opinions both think they're right.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 11:28:32 No.1921345
How to end this debate: read the reason why people decide to "transition" online. What they call "dysphoria" is essentially "I want to be a pwetty animu gurl because men are ugly and all my problems are because I'm man" or "I want to be man because I'm tomboy and hate girly shit" or "I'm homosexual therefore I need to transition".
If you don't belive it, look at online "trans" communities:
https://www.reddit.com/r/trans/

Notice how most posts are about guys dressing up as women and wearing make-up, as if that has anything to do with "gender" and not just cultural factors. They should fuck off to Scotland and they could wear a skirt without mutilating their bodies if they feel the need to fit into societal dressing norms.

Also note that many "trans" people decide to "detransition" later, after realizing they have been rused into ruining themselves for a trend.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 12:37:01 No.1921363
>>1921250
Yes, it's really a debate.

On one side, you have academics limited to Canada, UK, USA, and some nordic countries who are using thoughts and processes that are less than 100 years old to try to uncouple sex and gender. (and some societies that never advanced, no society advanced with this view from the outset.)

The other side is the whole rest of the world, and thousands of years of societies that actually advanced. Israel, Russia, China, Polish, most of your small Asian countries, etc.

You have the DSM-5 having an article admitting that they're backing off treatment and classifications of gender dysphoria because of social pressure and a desire to destigmatize transgenderism rather than any new scientific studies or scientific findings that disqualify dysphoria as a diagnosis.

Further, the first camp is largely successful via academic and social bullying, not scientific research. Shaming, defunding, refusing grants, blacklisting, and abusing peer review. Voices speaking to the contrary are marginalized not for their lack of process, but simply for being against the new paradigm while it is not fully supported by evidence.

Often times people think they can re-engineer society to make people more happy. We've been doing that here in America since the boomers, and we're failing. Millennials at this point think depression is the same thing as being an adult. Women thought that being made to act like men in business, and being expected to act like men in the home, would open up greater happiness and satisfaction... that the gender role of male and female was oppressive and making them less happy.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/18/womens-rights-happiness-wellbeing-gender-gap

Well, it seems like the more you attempt to jam a crowbar and pry at sex and gender, the more unhappy women get.

Of course, victim and offender are reversed... but you can read this article for yourself https://medium.com/@junocollective1/are-there-any-good-men-left-7c9000dd9fcf

And realize that the instinct of hypergamy, fully backed by science, is alive and well amongst women. It's just not satisfying to be "Ms.-Man" and have exactly zero relationship prospects because your male peers just decide to marry someone younger.

Nature is a bitch. The breeding windows are the same between genders. What motivates a woman or a man to pick a partner isn't a social construct, if they're identifying with the classical behavior of their sex, it's instinct.

Even the "Enlightened" nordic countries are reporting massive issues for women and their happiness when they try to ignore traditional roles, and a slew of articles show that many of these women are deciding to go cottage-core and discovering happiness far exceeding what being gender-liberated offered them.

Looping back to sex-is-not-gender debate, however, rather than the effects of it...

Most Americans still see sex as gender. This isn't because they're trying to be bigots, mean, or backwards, this is because the Academics are trying to change the general societal meaning of gender too quickly. If they were easing it in slower, through the public education system, no heckles would be raised. That's why this is clearly an ideological push. The newness of the idea coupled with the vehement shoving and pushing of it just isn't organic.

Research like that of John Money, who made "cubs" (filter) roleplay incest sex with each other, lays at the heart of this "gender is simply performative" mindset... fuck the fact many of his patients reverted to their birth gender and killed themselves after his "care".
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 13:50:42 No.1921395
>>1921345
I wouldn't formulate an opinion on dysphoria from reddit posts, I agree being trans is a fad though, an extremely dangerous one, kind of like how everyone thinks they have ADHD. I'm sure there are people with ADHD but not being a psychologist I'd still say a lot of normal people with an average short attention span have been misdiagnosed or those normal people just mislead themselves without getting a diagnosis. A lot of young, insecure, or mentally unstable people are gravitating to the trans label and I question some of the legitimacy.

I don't look favorably on the gender-x people on the internet, kind of often seem full of shit and overly sensitive, the labels they make usually appear meaningless and or superficial. But when talking about the differences between a non-binary person and man or a woman, I think it's about the person's feelings being different, and how those feelings relate to their self identified sex. You agree gender is a social construct but then criticize these people for lying and acting out some made up gender, but it's no different than a man acting like a man, as long as the person is legitimately being themselves they're not lying, their gender label may be arbitrary nonsense, much of what I've seen just playing off of gender stereotypes with what is considered feminine and masculine by their society's culture, but when gender itself is a social construct from the start it doesn't really matter if you make up more labels, it's all made up bullshit from the start.
Where it gets messy, but actually becomes meaningful, is when it relates to sex.

>There are two genders because the people can observe a clear and reliable difference between the two sexes with relatively little gray area in between. In the privacy of yourself, "gender" simply doesn't apply: there's no society to whom it would be a concern, so claiming that you're actually this gender or that gender, instead of whatever gender everyone else sees you as, is nonsense.

I find this statement to be very flawed. The gray area is what this is all about. What other people see doesn't matter, my sex is male, I have a penis that I was born with, I feel male and prefer male pronouns, but I have been misgendered by people who mistook me as female, that doesn't make me a female or a liar. Now I don't care about being misgendered that much, but I can at least understand someone being annoyed by it, and I think that's what all this label shit is about. I feel like it's petty on both sides.
I think making up random words for pronouns and expecting society to ask for them and use them is silly, I'm glad that's died down a bit and most of these gender-x people have settled on they/them being fine as the neutral, but also wanting society to care so much about checking for gender to avoid mislabeling is also a bit of an overblown concern in my opinion, I'd rather people learn not to be so offended by being addressed with any pronouns. Conversely if someone you're working with asks to be addressed with certain pronouns, he/she/they, I don't think that's that big of a deal either.

tl;dr there are not only two genders, gender is made up bullshit.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 17:47:35 No.1921572
Has kadath made a meme character again? I'm not surprised, I stopped watching her comics, despite their relatively decent quality after the cuck stuff. Just don't read those shit comics with shit characters and shit plot. Half decent fap material as images at best.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 21:08:52 No.1921645
sex is gender and gender is sex.
gender norms exist for a reason just like stereotypes, society may have its flaws but does not take down the general view of people. effeminate men and masculine women exist but aren't enough to be a demographic nor they should be considered sexual dysphoria and make them take the pills.
The more i see this separation of both words and introduction to trainsgenderism the more I realize people confuse being trans to having AGP because from what i've seen in dis-chord chats and reddit, there sure seems to have a boner for turning boys into girls as young as possible and for people to hate the idea to define gender they sure love to identify with either
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 21:31:31 No.1921649
I mean, its par for the course with idealogy coming from the left. All the changes to language by in large are attempts to render terms less discriptive, less useful, to convey meaning with less accuracy or relevance.

When a cop needs to know if the perp appears to be a man or woman, is gender identity important to that dragnet? No.

When a cop needs a race for a perp, person of color can be 6 different groups, where as black or latino is far more useful.

When we want to know if this person should dress with the girls or play sports with them, whats relevant is if that person has similar athletic capability, joints, bone mass, shoulder and hip width.

The only purpose of sexing, or gendering, is to fit people into large buckets that eliminate 50% of your expected options and also conveys alot of generally accurate assumptions. ( like untrained deadlift power, or starting draw weight, or softball/fastball pitch speed... Or BMI for medicine dosing. )

Expanding gender to 10 or 72 genders just renders gender a far less useful descriptor. Its a war on noticing things. Its a war on knowing frankfurter and bruce from natural born women under threat of penalty.

Edited at 2021/03/28 21:34:00
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 21:37:59 No.1921650
And before anyone says "well we have sex for that", America just passed laws that require professionals to use gender instead of sex on federal forms and medical databases kept by the fed. Sex, if still present, is to be treated as gender.

Academics are already saying its time to "cancel" sex.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 22:53:16 No.1921668
>>1921650
>America just passed laws that require professionals to use gender instead of sex on federal forms and medical databases kept by the fed

[citation sorely needed]
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 23:03:35 No.1921673
117 HR 5 IH: Equality Act U.S. House of Representatives.

Executive order 2021/01/20/

"executive order preventing and combating discrimination on basis of gender identity or sexual orientation"

These two legislative and executive acts are referred to as broad and sweeping changes by the NYT and the Guardian despite being in favor of them. If you're wanting a spoon feeding of them, I'm sorry, but I'm not wasting the effort on someone who's not making any full throated arguments. If you want to have a real argument, sure, but I'm not wasting time on the outdated tactic of "Citation needed" "Experts please!" like a krout and tea, or teal deer video. That's when it becomes the google-it-yourself special Olympics of armchair debate.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 23:12:42 No.1921679
File: wlf_u18chan.png - (368.31kb, 1114x798, wlf.PNG)
Plus, I stand with the women's liberation front on this. Build them a facility, build it in the best part of town, and maybe even over fund it... but don't force women's shelters to take in trans people who still look like their original gender. Likewise, don't tell a woman she has to allow a "transgender" doctor that looks like Nintendo's Mario, with hairy forearms, in between her legs.

I feel like other countries have it right -- If you want to be trans, you should have to go forward with HRT or corrective surgery. None of this snickering dude-bro shit where men claim they're trans just to circumvent anti-male barriers. We're seeing this happening in sports already.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 23:23:13 No.1921683
And this is why most people in America don't like trans stuff going on. Fuck, friggin pervs can use this shit to do whatever the fuck they want in restrooms. Fucking libs!

You do you, but if you can't have me tolerate your shit and need me to actually care? Then fuck off!
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 23:29:30 No.1921690
Fuck libs trying to change latino or latina to latainx. Fucking disgrace and sounds just like a tissue company.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/28 23:53:19 No.1921693
>>1921683

How often has this actually happened?
Why not transition to unisex restroom stalls?
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Furrynomous 2021/03/29 00:55:37 No.1921709
>>1921683
I don't think I agree with bathroom discrimination, I can agree with keeping sports separate, maybe women's shelters and other things, but I feel like this issue of sexual assaulting trannies in the the bathrooms is more fear mongering than reality, though I'm sure it's happened, there's always one. I know we need to protect women but with public women's restrooms there are separate stalls, any behavior that would be creepy would probably already be illegal.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/29 01:20:40 No.1921723
>>1921693
Because people like Jessica Yaniv exist. Mister Garrison from southpark's transgender time was basically based on Jessica Yaniv.

Yaniv would ask deeply private questions of little girls in public and private, using locker rooms and bathrooms to do it. She tried to force female salon workers to wax her lady balls (Yaniv hadn't had bottom surgery at the time, still hasn't AFAIK) and would talk about her vagina as if she had one, or as if she had periods. She sued multiple businesses over "Discrimination" while being a total creep to clients and workers.

Now it's been found that Jessica Yaniv is implicated in sending sexual messages to underage girls online.

To your question about unisex stalls, men and women use bathrooms differently. Women will often use them as dressing rooms or adjust themselves and their clothing in the common area. They also don't have a quick in/out option like peeing while standing.

If they had unisex bathrooms, women would be subject to urine all over the seat and they would be offered less safe space. In fact, many women duck into the women's room if they feel threatened, stalked, or fear potential kidnapping... since the very fact men aren't supposed to be in there is enough to make other men spring into action and deliver an assbeating to a stalker. All that evaporates if men and women share the space as unisex.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/29 01:23:44 No.1921726
So like I said previously. Maybe if we mandate to be transgender and be treated as if you were born whatever... you have to fully commit.

The executive action, and the bill that passed in America, however, treat a declaration of "I'm a woman today" or "I'm a woman right now" as a valid means of being transgender enough to look fully male, talk fully male, have fully male parts, and barge your way into a women's private area.

Jessica Yaniv would have never been able to pull shenanigans under such a rule. Fuck, maybe even have the government pay for it so it's not gated by income... but to get treated as the opposite, you should have to commit. No fucking around. No perverts. No dudebros.

Edited at 2021/03/29 01:25:40
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Furrynomous 2021/03/29 10:54:49 No.1921960
>>1921726
The problem with your argument is that you imply an opposite-sex or "trans" person poses a bigger threat of perversion and stalking than homosexuals of the same sex. If you want women protected from these (you didn't seem to bring up concerns for men over it) you might aswell try to get homosexuals banned from the "safe spaces".
You also seem to imply that "transsexuals" who complete their "transition" (which can't be completed anyway and have to constantly keep their bodies from trying to turn back into it's original form) pose less of a threat than the ones who didn't or don't plan to. By your own logic, a man-looking tranny is less of a threat than a woman-looking one to women, since he/she/xhe/it will obviously stand out.

Edited at 2021/03/29 11:02:50
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Furrynomous 2021/03/29 11:57:47 No.1922016
>>1921960
I mean technically it is less of a threat, someone with their balls off can't impregnate someone else. With no dick, they can't force an STD or internal damage on someone as easily. Being trans does not imply that you are also attracted to the opposite gender of the gender your transition into. Many transwomen, formerly men, consider themselves "Lesbian". The trouble is, they still have the dick and the ammo to go with it.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/29 12:14:13 No.1922049
Enough of this. This clearly has a negative effect on our lives. We could've tolerated this and all, but the left keeps on demanding more room to fuck with everything there is with laws and shit.

Again, women can't get a break while n the restroom as of now because of annoying agendas.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/29 20:12:12 No.1922318
>>1922049
Public shitholes are not intended to serve as some sort of private sanctuary.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/29 21:02:08 No.1922332
>>1922016
Are you seriously trying to imply that cisgendered lesbians can't sexually assault or spread diseases to other women?

Meanwhile, as your side of this is rallying to keep the public shitters as the mighty safe space for all good and pure cis women (as if there's any actual way to enforce such a ludicrous rule short of having someone stationed at each and every one demanding people show their genitals before entering), trans individuals are constantly being shunned, beaten and killed, regardless of how well they present themselves as their preferred gender or whether or not they still have the parts they were born with, by exactly the type of people who'd support this sort of movement, but hey, who cares about them, eh?

>>1921960
...Yes, a transition most certainly can be completed...?

You DO realize that once enough HRT is done and certain parts are removed, production of certain hormones stops right?

Edited at 2021/03/29 21:09:30
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Furrynomous 2021/03/30 00:09:36 No.1922393
File: Herewegoagain..._0_u18chan.png - (550.9kb, 1012x507, Here we go again....png)
Public shitholes that most would prefer to have in privacy. By that logic, it's like saying a dressing room in public shouldn't be segregated into their own sections because of stupid nonsense and not upholding privacy.

God damn, is it really that hard to not just enter a bathroom that isn't men or women? Could help out both sides so no one has to deal with more problems.

Edited at 2021/03/30 00:10:05
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Furrynomous 2021/03/30 10:25:32 No.1922614
>>1922332
>constantly being shunned,
just like druggies and self-harmers are "shunned". they destroy themselves for their own stupidity and lack of judgement on their decisions, people point it out and they cry "TRANSPHOBIA!!!"

>beaten and killed,
sure they do. what netflix movie did you get this from? they are usuallly killed by their own self, after realizing they unrepairably ruined their bodies and lives.

>You DO realize that once enough HRT is done and certain parts are removed, production of certain hormones stops right?

and you DO realize they still need to actively maintain the damage done to their bodies to keep it from trying to turn back into it's healthy original state? male to "female" trans constantly have to "dilate" their "vagina" to keep it from healing in, female to "male" trans constantly have to get the pump implant checked/adusted (you know, the thing they have to press in their "balls" to make it simulate an "erection") and they still need to take hormones to keep the hormone levels similar to the sex they want to mimic, instead of them being like eunuchs.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/30 13:24:13 No.1922665
>>1922332
>trans individuals are constantly being shunned, beaten and killed
>Yes, a transition most certainly can be completed
>once enough HRT is done and certain parts are removed, production of certain hormones stops
[citation needed]
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Furrynomous 2021/03/30 14:40:22 No.1922741
So what's the topic of this again? It was supposable about Kadath's character sexuality retconning but then it turned into a general trans topic.
We already HAVE a transgender discussion topic ya fucks.
>>1778612
This is so damn redundant and honestly this thread shouldn't have even been made.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/30 15:40:18 No.1922761
>>1922741
1.) It was to get the transgender debate out of the comic topic.
2.) Thread you linked was not a mod post. Not binding.
3.) Thread you posted hasn't been commented on in 20+ days, and was started last year. No need to necro garbage.
4.) Have you been using this site long? Redundancy is our thing. We have words banned and even a banned debate topic because of gay comic section infighting.

Edited at 2021/03/30 15:42:25
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Furrynomous 2021/03/30 16:47:51 No.1922795
>>1922761
>3.) Thread you posted hasn't been commented on in 20+ days, and was started last year. No need to necro garbage.
The last post was on the 8th of THIS MONTH. That's barely a fucking necro.
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Furrynomous 2021/03/30 19:35:46 No.1922854
Barely, but still a necro.
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Furrynomous 2021/04/01 10:30:38 No.1923624
>>1922332
less than 30 of them die every year and a majority of them are black hookers
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Furrynomous 2021/04/01 18:35:48 No.1923791
>>1922854
No, something from the same month is not a necro, sorry.

>>1922665
>>1922614
Just say you hate trans people and proudly believe stupid shit about them be done with it.
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Furrynomous 2021/04/01 21:18:16 No.1923883
Why must it be either love them or hate them? Shouldnt their rights be in balance with the rights of others and not reigning dominant?

Apathy and standing up for the right to call a spade a spade with reconstructive fork surgery? Those two things are normal, not far right extremism.

Edited at 2021/04/01 21:18:53
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Furrynomous 2021/04/02 09:44:05 No.1924144
>>1923791
i dont "hate" "trans" people, i disagree with "transgenderism/transsexuality". making it sound like a personal hatred towards individuals is a common tactic used by "progressives" to try to discredit the opponent in an argument without actually acknowledging any point they brought up. just like you did.

what exactly do you refer to by "stupid shit" i believe about them? what they do really is "stupid shit", but that's not a problem from my side.
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Furrynomous 2021/04/02 10:30:27 No.1924153
>>1923883
Thing is, most things that seem normal such as not choosing to partake in anything but tolerating what is going on and just stating the facts with actual things to back it up are becoming more and more seen as "far right", simply because the other side just can't deal with the fact that there are those who disagree or just don't care at all about what's going on and minding their own business.

There is a reason why they try to state that silence is somehow hurtful or how not siding with their view is not good, because they wish to simply control everything, how people live etc. If people simply had their own of living life, then that's somehow "far-right".
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Furrynomous 2021/04/03 12:36:33 No.1924740
In our law, if you want to change your legal gender, regardless of whether you're undergoing HRT or other modifications, you must get yourself sterilized and have a doctor's certificate that you're permanently unable to procreate.

Stops the problem from propagating.
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Furrynomous 2021/04/03 20:35:35 No.1925096
Not really. GLAAD activist teacher in uk, us, ca, they find all the kids the can with high function autism/ behavior issues/ emotional disturbances and convince them that they're trans and that transistioning is the gateway to happiness and social acceptance. (Love bombing and other cult practices.)

Trans procreates mostly from adults with big ideas influencing children... Anyone that says this isnt a thing is ignoring trans queen story time or trans chil- strip shows.
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Furrynomous 2021/04/03 21:52:40 No.1925128
>>1925096
There are hundreds of cases every year of babies being sacrificed in satanic ritual worship.
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Furrynomous 2021/04/04 00:46:32 No.1925183
>>1925096
Cool, where'd you get these totally real facts from, the Info Wars subreddit?
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Furrynomous 2021/04/04 03:38:59 No.1925265
"I haven't heard of it, so it isn't real" isn't an argument.

"Lol satanic baby killing." Satanists don't even believe in that shit. GLAAD on the otherhand, is a real organization with real people, a real building, and a fucking website. Don't forget a twitter and facebook page where they push the idea of a null-gender for children until they're 18 years old!

But they're totally not trying to get at children. Please ignore where they have even successfully lobbied for the right for gender activists in UK schools to get between parents and their children.

Ya'll fucknuts piss me off. But here's one source on one claim. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/autistic-girls-seeking-answers-are-seizing-on-sex-change-3r82850gw

Why not assume for once people aren't lying to you or trying to lie to others just because they don't suck the same cocks?
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Furrynomous 2021/04/04 03:44:06 No.1925267
https://theconversation.com/transgender-and-gender-diverse-people-up-to-six-times-more-likely-to-be-autistic-new-study-144085

And another for kicks. 4 autistic men to every 1 autistic woman. Yet higher rates of transexualism among autistic women? Seems suspect considering most mental disorders bias on men. (or read that as, most non-neurotypical behavior if disorder triggers you.)

And here's another source, highlighting how they're finding so many "Gender diverse" people among the autistic women segment. https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity/

Of course, I know these articles aren't drawing the same conclusions, but I wanted to highlight that both the right and left sources have identified that autistic girls are being earmarked for gender dysphoria more often. So much so the UK high court blocked puberty blockers on autistic people under the age of 16.
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Furrynomous 2021/04/04 06:05:43 No.1925299
>>1925267
Note that being six time more likely doesn't mean transgender people are 6:1 autists. In fact, the overwhelming majority are not.

> somewhere between 3-9% of transgender and gender-diverse adults may be autistic.

This is simply six times higher a rate than is estimated for the general population. This takes the bottom ouf of the theory that trans is propagated by proselytizing retarded children. 91-97% of trans people are probably just pathologically insane as it were, and as such - no matter what the problem is exactly - it's probably for the best that they should not have children of their own. Hence why the sterilization laws, kinda like how you would not want to give birth to more children with Cerebral Palsy.

Edited at 2021/04/04 06:11:57
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Furrynomous 2021/04/04 08:55:47 No.1925368
>>1925299
I don't know what the note is for, because I wasn't claiming that.

I was highlighting that the number of autistic women being told, groomed, and pushed into being trans is disproportionate. Failing to be girly, or reasoning like an aspie, that shouldn't immediately make an under-qualified school counselor decide it's kosher to start prepping an autist girl for puberty blockers.

I'm going to get personal. I went through the special services at school myself. They did more harm than good for most of us kids and we were guinea pigs for whatever the cutting edge was being taught at the time right before those people finished their degrees and came to work in the public sector.

In my case, dealing with my high-function shitstorm and emotional disturbances was to make me a beacon for abuse by having me get to leave class early (which every other fucking kid noticed) and getting pulled out of class 3 times a week for "assistance" which amounted to them leaving me in a room alone while they collected money for the school for a tutor I never received... oh, and that put me behind my lessons because I was missing instruction time. And of course, all the other kids noticed me leaving class and resented that I got to and they didn't.

And about my emotions, they didn't help me with my emotional disturbance. They convinced me to become completely deadpan and monotone so people wouldn't be encouraged to pick up on my emotional responses for more bullying.

School staff are NOT qualified for this shit.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/04/04 09:13:11 No.1925402
>>1925265
The threat of satanic ritual abuse is real people! Open your eyes!
>>
Furrynomous 2021/04/04 10:39:27 No.1925449
>>1925368
>I was highlighting that the number of autistic women being told, groomed, and pushed into being trans is disproportionate.

To what?

Proportional to being trans in general, it's still small and doesn't explain the numbers.

Sounds like you just had a bum experience in school, and you're now extrapolating it into a conspiracy theory with far more significance and no real impact. A personal pizzagate.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/04/04 12:31:12 No.1925512
You are doing a really poor job at gas lighting. The articles themselves validate that it isnt my perception alone. A.) More transmen are being diagnosed among autistic people than transwomen; which is disproporronate given that transmen in general exist 1 for every 10 transwomen. B.) Its not wrong to examine why. Trying to twist every tomboy and butch into a man might be an unwarranted. C.) This kind of wild swinging for the fences is a big problem in psychologly. Look at the simulated incest sex figures like John Money made their young patients do to teach them gender roles.

I am also not wrong to think the school system in the UK is doing poorly, nor America. Child suicide rates and depression rates have been climbing in the UK since 2010. Academic performance is dropping too. What other metrics would I need to point to for ailing systems?
>>
Furrynomous 2021/04/10 15:23:56 No.1929062
I personally feel like there can be a balaence between all of this for all sides, not just the main left or right wing side, but those who are also libertarians and those who may be a bit on the other side, but show they have common sense to be civil in a discussion. (E.g. Tim Pool talked about chatting with some guy who says he was a communist, the guy disagrees with violence when Pool brought it up, showing that there can be a common ground on all fronts.)

For example, We can easily have separate bathroom stalls, maybe include some restrooms for a mix of men/other gender and women/other gender. This should work, as it includes views on the right for the traditional bathroom views, while the left still gets some restroom spots that get treated as a mix, so this should solve everyone's problems for problem 1.

Problem 2 is sports, which I have a really hard time debating on what could occur here. There can be a trans only sports where the right gets their own traditional sports kept, but something like maybe a mix like the above can work? Considering how some who are LGBT, they get their hormones changed, which can be flexible for what sport is to be played, and who might be playing in it.

Problem 3 is an easy one I think. Have different places where they respect those who have pronouns and keep places that don't have such needs, where everyone is seen as being male or female, where others who don't, won't really care about being called whatever.

This should solve everyone's problems? Wouldn't it?

Edited at 2021/04/10 15:24:54
>>
Furrynomous 2021/04/15 22:48:53 No.1931907
Nah.

There is literally no right to compel others to live a truth that another individual holds. Any concessions on bathrooms, sports, or allowing someone transgender to sue someone like a landlord for pronouns, that all flows from that.

I hate to be so mechanical, unsympathetic and brutal about it... but at the end of the day, law, order, society, it's all about the mechanisms.

Compelling people to think a certain way, speak a certain way, etc, all of that is authoritarian bullshit. No cause is good enough reason to open the door to that.

I think it ought to be no different from gay or lesbian protected class statues. They can still piss inside your restaurant, bar, sports center, whatever... but you know damn well one restroom is optimized for a cock, and one is optimized for a pussy. If you haven't had bottom surgery, march your candy ass into the dick-havers room.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/04/16 16:55:10 No.1932211
>>1931907
You've never had to mentally condition yourself to use something different from what you were raised to use, have you?
>>
Furrynomous 2021/04/16 17:07:28 No.1932216
>>1932211
A lot of Americans had to go through therapy after suffering the trauma of being forced to wear masks. Don't underestimate America.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/04/17 07:00:17 No.1932463
>If you haven't had bottom surgery, march your candy ass into the dick-havers room.

They will do no such thing and there isn't a single thing you can do to stop them.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/04/19 16:16:00 No.1933647
Some women have a cock 'n' balls, and some men have a vagina. It's just how is.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/04/30 20:07:43 No.1939638
>>1925512
> The articles themselves validate that it isnt my perception alone.

Sure. Yet, that's not important. Many people can have the same delusion. You're simply placing unwarranted importance of individual cases, including John Money's, to explain a wider phenomenon with something that has almost nothing to do with what's actually going on. It explains but a tiny part of the whole if that.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/01 17:00:07 No.1940048
>>1932216
Wow, that's actually fuckin' pathetic.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/01 23:50:08 No.1940165
>>1932211

You think I never bucked tradition? My god, you assume too much. I was the first one to "Ruin" Easter and Christmas in my family by refusing to pray. I was the first one to declare myself atheist.

What even is your argument? That adaptation is a virtue in and of itself? That novelty is a virtue in and of itself? In both cases, these are logical fallacy.

>>1939638
Money's research is used to this day as a foundation of many leading works. It isn't quite so isolated if people turn something like that into the foundation for their framework of knowledge.

>>1932463
I mean, there are plenty of regions that do. There are regions that didn't, and then they changed their laws to prevent it now. I can do nothing to stop it? How about being politically active, making donations anonymously AND legally by buying people's book instead of donating directly... etc.

I don't see the problem what so ever with de-gendering bathrooms and reducing them down to your current genitalia.

In all honestly, if you see that as discriminatory... you are now the one assigning gender from sex. You are now the conservative.

Let's be real though. Removing the gender binary wasn't the goal. Truly separating penis=boy and vagina=girl wasn't the goal. The goal at this point is to be transgressive and not peaceful, cooperative or codependent with normative society. The goal is destruction and replacement. The people dumb enough to stick their heads up and oppose it are just doing you the favor of making themselves known so that they can be targeted, removed or otherwise neutralized.

In this way, transgendered people have become a search and destroy tool for cancel culture and a wedge to open the door to other issues and policies unrelated.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8869214-the-white-liberal-is-the-worst-enemy-to-america-and

Quote from Malcom X. Because that man understood what it meant to be co-opted and used as a broad political tool. He tried to warn his fellow activists about it and the poor man was assassinated. I feel the modern progressive movement is acting like the borg and took in the transgender movement to increase the number of weapons they had to use.

Edited at 2021/05/01 23:57:06
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Furrynomous 2021/05/02 09:11:56 No.1940780
I feel Malcom X was truly caring for his own race. His solution from that of MLK was for his own race to live in their own area, figure things out and solve whatever the fuck is going on, and then maybe things can work from there.

Honestly, he might have solved the problem for his race, since he was really smart and all. Not to say that MLK was wrong or anything like that, but sometimes worrying about your own kind or really just in general, friends or family that don't eve have to be by blood is sometimes the better option.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/02 16:03:50 No.1940940
>>1940780
The unfortunate thing with Martin Luther King and his vision, is that we were closer to adopting it as a nation and then somehow snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. People like Al Sharpton just can't let go with a grift and groups like black lives matter made themselves profitable off of racial grievance. Prior to President Obama, in self-reported surveys and studies white and black people were closer to racial unity than ever before. President Obama was the president that black lives matter formed underneath, and I truly believe he accentuated and highlighted racial divides and revived a lot of racism. People have to feel aggrieved on racial lines to have racial hate for others, that racial hate leads to prejudiced interpersonal interactions, and those prejudiced interpersonal interactions lead to reinforced stereotypes where people expect that those of another race are hateful towards them or dangerous for them.

I myself voted for President Obama and I regret it because the hope and change wasn't Unity. In 2021, color blindness and trying to live the Captain Planet future is considered racist. What was the dream in the paradise for so many, that we would all just be Americans together, is now considered abusive and degrading.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/02 19:46:35 No.1941016
>>1940940
>In 2021, color blindness and trying to live the Captain Planet future is considered racist.
trying to be "color blind" in modern America means trying to ignore systemic racism, full stop

"people should be judged on their merits" - yeah, and when the supposedly unbiased SATs can account for how black students are more likely to come from poorer school districts and have poorer education as a result, you let me know

if you don't see color, you don't see the lived experiences of people of color - and even if a white person isn't trying to be racist, they can still perpetuate racism by ignoring systemic racism and the results thereof
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/02 20:13:18 No.1941026
>>1941016
>when the supposedly unbiased SATs can account for how black students are more likely to come from poorer school districts and have poorer education as a result, you let me know
That isn't really an example of racism. It's not only black people. Poor white folk have the same poor education results because public school funding is based on district income, meaning that people from poor neighborhoods get a poor education.

Our education system doesn't discriminate against black people; it discriminates against the poor and serves to widen the wealth gap and decrease social mobility by giving further advantage to the already wealthy and throwing additional hurdles in the paths of the poor.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/02 20:48:14 No.1941039
>>1941016
You are exactly the kind of person I am talking about. Thank you for popping your head in and proving that it isn't an imagined boogeyman. Thank you for proving that modern progressivism would see both Martin Luther King and Malcolm X as complicit to systemic racism. Further thank you for proving that all inconvenient outcomes are classified as systemic racism, even when they have nothing to do with race or prejudice.

Putting the thumb on the scales of SAT scores or small business loans will not give the underclass in society the skills they need to run businesses successfully or complete their college courses successfully. Sympathetic and benevolent racism with no expectations of performance just means that people will not trust minority engineers to be as compitent as Asian or white engineers and further cement more racial stereotypes rather than reduce them. Everything you do and preach politically is just more dependence on white guilt and white benevolence. You would have the black man beg you for solutions and help.

You are exactly the kind of person Malcolm X warned about. You are exactly what stops people from becoming strong in their own right.

Edited at 2021/05/02 20:50:04
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/02 20:48:18 No.1941040
File: 60596b302809e7a00fd72513778a176d947b13a380090bf0ba967a826bcba064_u18chan.gif - (969.28kb, 498x372, 60596b302809e7a00fd72513778a176d947b13a380090bf0ba967a826bcba064.gif)
The guy above me is correct. Stop making enemies. There is a reason why the rich shut up Jeffrey Epstein. They control everything and can easily avoid shit with $$$.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/02 21:23:59 No.1941056
>>1941039
>Putting the thumb on the scales of SAT scores or small business loans will not give the underclass in society the skills they need to run businesses successfully or complete their college courses successfully.
didn't say it would, never thought it would

my point is that supposedly "color-blind" systems can still exhibit biases because the people who designed and implemented those systems had biases they forgot to check and adjust for

and while the systems can correct for such biases, sometimes they're only a symptom of a much larger problem - in the case of the SATs, poorer school districts that are majority-black because those districts are majority-black

black people can't fix white racism, nor should that be their burden

it should be on white people to unfuck their own racism, start being anti-racist, and do what they can to work with black people - not talking over them, not saying "we know what's best for them", but actually listening to black people about their concerns and going from there - to alleviate the effects of systemic racism and work towards a world where everyone gets at an equal chance to make it on their own merits

and I mean equal opportunity, not equal outcomes, so don't shove that shit down my throat as if I spit it out first
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/02 23:20:22 No.1941089
>>1941056
Okay... this policy.

It benefits all rich black people.
It benefits all rich white people.
It discriminates against all poor black folk.
It discriminates against all poor white folk.

Which of the following statements is most true:
This is a racist policy that is discriminatory towards black folk and beneficial to the white man.
This policy is discriminatory to the poor and beneficial to the rich.

This is surely a battle worth fighting, but the 'enemy' you've identified has turned potential allies who are also being discriminated against into enemies. It is better to directly attack the cause of a problem than to drag your cause into every problem.
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Furrynomous 2021/05/02 23:20:34 No.1941090
>>1941089
Exactly this.


>>1941056
Anti-racist my ass. The policies you support and advocate for, as well as speaking against colorblindness are 100% racism and prejudice. Even the leading writers and speakers for the "anti-racist" movement freely admit the solutions they seek are prejudice to redress past racism.

No amount of programs is going to fix the black family. Your thesis is bullshit. Multiple presidential administrations declared Chicago an emergency. The state has declared it an emegency. We have been shoveling cash onto "poor" schools there to make spending per student rival and even excede private education.... the students still get pregnant, stab each other, drop out and assault teachers.

Systemic issues are not fixed with a bridge built from one side, and a fleet of white people pushing critical race theory into steven universe PSAs wont be the thing to build it.

Colorblindness is superior, proven by the fact that the greatest level of black satisfaction was achieved under it as self reported, and that satisfaction has only dropped with the rise of CRT and racist anti-racism.

Edited at 2021/05/02 23:22:18
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/03 00:19:54 No.1941114
It's clear some folks just want a war. And if they do? Then let them know that the rich are gonna be heed of a reckoning.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/03 02:46:24 No.1941153
>>1941114
No. Think about every major brand you know of. Who do they support? Who do they ban? Who are the benefactors and beneficiaries of big business?

The rich are and will continue to be largely unscathed. They turn the poor and down trodden against the middle class. Black business owners get their businesses destroyed by BLM, funded by Amazon, Google and Apple. It's the bucket of crabs.

It even touches education. No longer is the student the customer, the student has not been the customer ever since government took over the loans.

The colleges train activists and get paid by the politicians through tax payer money. The tax payer money is replenished by the activists and how they mobilize greater tax burden policies. This money is used once more to pay the college to make even more of these unwitting pawns.

Wealth is fleeing the middle class, and not into the hands of those in poverty. All the while, the rich smile at us. They post white on black text messages about how much they care. And yet... how many give paid time off to black workers on Juneteenth?

The rich will be fine, because they have the two great threats to their power fighting each other.

To bring it back on topic to gender/sex/sexuality... the point being made was that progressives are using transgender people to justify social media bans.

Look at twitter, their view is that misgendering is disagreement with a personal opinion rooted in new gender theory. Misgendering to the majority of people would be seeing a completely intact man, built like Arnold from his Conan the Barbarian days, and identifying that as a woman.

It is a perfect pain point. I honestly have to admire it. I haven't seen society compel one person to say things on the behalf of other people, that they don't believe, since religion. All the zeal of religion, all the dogma, certainly the shunning, with none of the afterlife threats. It is just really impressive.

Edited at 2021/05/03 02:51:09
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Furrynomous 2021/05/03 04:58:53 No.1941225
>>1941153
>It even touches education. No longer is the student the customer, the student has not been the customer ever since government took over the loans. The colleges train activists and get paid by the politicians through tax payer money
Ehhhh, the problem wasn't the government handling education. The problem was the government defunding public education and shifting the funds to private education, turning education which is intended to elevate the population through equal opportunity into a for-profit enterprise owned by private entities. By posing students as 'customers,' you're chaining education which, back in the glory days when American education ranked top in the world, was considered a social service to the capitalist dogmas of wealth and profit, the following of which led our education system into the morass it's now in.
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Furrynomous 2021/05/03 07:56:13 No.1941275
>>1941225
this motherfucker gets it
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/03 14:27:31 No.1941526
>>1941225
No, you completely misunderstand how things were. You have a lot of word salad there that doesn't mean much.

Prior to 1965, your options were to find a private loan at a bank or balance college with working to pay for it. You could, at this point, declare bankruptcy if you needed to and that included the student loan debt held by the bank.

This created a self-correcting force in the market. When you went to the bank to ask for a loan for education, you needed to prove you would be a good investment. Your choice of major had to be valuable and your choice of college had to be a college that was known for good job placement.

When 1965 rolled around, and things changed, colleges didn't have to compete on the merits of the student outcomes post education. They instead began to attract students with the campus experience offered. This is when your party schools started to grow into notoriety.

This is why the end result of college is no longer a career. This is why college is now about "finding yourself" instead of finding a good job you can be proud of and happy with.

Also, I'll just point out, there is less opportunity than ever. The world war II generation was still full steam on exploiting cheap and dirty energy in the form of anthracite coal and being able to build 40 homes from one fucking felled redwood tree. Now we lack these easily had natural commodities (redwoods, american chestnut) OR the issue of global warming has made the use of certain materials a peril. (Anthracite coal. Go look at how many mines are shut down across the country, it really used to be huge business.)

All public-money things, like public education, they're fed by the overall prosperity of a system. We haven't been prosperous since the 90s and even then I debate with myself if we really were... because there were so many ponzi schemes and home mortgage debt shenanigans going on. With the economy limping instead of surging, and the number of public works we do larger than ever, we just don't have enough fat to make sure every single public school is up to par. Even then, money alone doesn't make a school or set of schools successful, as Chicago and their funding per student proves.

We have a cultural problem in America at this point. A lack of standards. We're not supposed to discourage people from taking out 60k in loans for glass blowing and basket weaving classes because we would be evil stifling parents.

College stopped being something earned or bartered for, and it became an entitlement. An extension of childhood. It was never meant to be that.
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Furrynomous 2021/05/03 18:07:19 No.1941767
This is why I decline to go parties and wish to have a few friends who also ain't that type of idiot to waste money on shit or think getting "laid" is somehow awesome. I still see a few Americans who really want to do things like animation or being an enignner, but the former is baked with those who think with an agenda and the latter will hardly have any thoughtful young people who are smart and not stupid.
Of course, you have the idiots who think that the research of being age 25 or younger is somehow ideal when it isn't, along with the judical system trying to cater to 18-26 year olds because somehow their brain isn't an adult brain.

Fuck that bullshit. They are adults by 18. No other fucking logic can explain how most of the important stuff of the brain is formed before when they were a child and teenager than a young adult.
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Furrynomous 2021/05/03 20:50:37 No.1941810
File: tuition_u18chan.png - (58.68kb, 600x600, tuition.png)
>>1941526
>Prior to 1965, your options were to find a private loan at a bank or balance college with working to pay for it
Prior to 1965, colleges were affordable enough for a person to pay their own way through them with a regular job, without needing a loan at all.

Also, our post-secondary education isn't what people are talking about when they mention a failing education system. Despite the increasing economic impact of a postsecondary education caused by out of control tuition costs, the quality of education provided in our colleges are competitive worldwide. All of your social opinions regarding the failures of our colleges kind of fall flat in the face of the unbiased statistics. When people speak of the failing American education system, they're talking about secondary school and early education.

>money alone doesn't make a school or set of schools successful, as Chicago and their funding per student proves
The average per student spending in Chicago public schools at present remains consistent with the national average. I'm confused as to what you're referring to.

>we can't afford to spend money in education
Education is infrastructure. Education is an investment in long-term growth. The present state of the economy isn't what's made us incapable of investing in the future; it is America's aversion to investing in the future and love of short-term gain that has caused our present economic state.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/03 22:50:19 No.1941847
>>1941810

Chicago spends 40k per student, charter schools in the same state charge 3k and give better futures. Money isnt everything. A lack of funding is not the root of all social cures. https://chronicleillinois.com/government/numbers-show-wide-disparity-in-classroom-spending-in-illinois-public-schools/#:~:text=The%20Chicago%20Public%20School%20spends,in%20the%20state%20of%20Illinois.

I mentioned 1965 because that's when the federal government began to get involved in student loans. The college is no longer had to do business with people at a level they could reasonably afford.

When the government got involved in paying for education the market controls for useless degrees or bad teaching went away because the bank no longer had to worry about getting their loan payment. The bank was involved in the decision and would Blacklist bad colleges and they wouldn't agree to fund bunk degrees.

That America is competitive worldwide just means that we still have intelligent people in America who went above and beyond. The job placement rates that align with the degree of the graduate have been dropping. You have industries with high graduation rates that complain that they can't find qualified applicants and that is due to the fact that the colleges aren't turning out qualified people.

It impacts primary education because the quality of teacher that is out in the world today is lower than what it was in the past.

The social infanlizing also impacts teacher safety. A 16 year old with a knife, having slashed one foster sister, and about to gut her second foster sister was talked about as if she were a 9 year old.

By 15 you shouldnt be thinking you get to fuck around like you are a cute child that cant pull off manslaughter or murder but but here we are.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/04 01:24:07 No.1941889
>>1941881

A substantiation yes. How many do I need to give? How many will you wave away as "patriotsgunsflagboner" sources? It is also remarkable that you would complain given that your source is... a image graph in isolation. Are you even making an effort to substantiate yourself?

It's not just grants because that is all you managed to come up with. See above where I said their education situation has been declared an emergency at the state and federal level? That has increased the funding of the schools in the city in general.

That a special needs school is doing so well is remarkable. Very young children with special needs are the hardest to educate and they're managing it with far less money. There is no white privilege at work here either, given that the school is dominant minority.

The school receiving 40k isn't achieving excellence. It's dismal considering it requires almost 3 times the cost as the average.

American exceptionalism is a myth unsubstantiated by any evidence whatsoever.
Never made this claim. All I said is that there are people who are naturally inclined to educate themselves and over-achieve and they make the rest of the country look better. I actually said the exact opposite of exceptionalism. I said the majority of our students, after college, are not qualified and further, don't find placement in their industry. I can't tell you how many subway managers and barista I've met who are BA or Masters for game design, animation or film. There was nobody to stand in their way and stop them from becoming 60k debt-slaved failures. No hurdles to prove as warning signs prior to becoming locked in. Even if we had free education, we would still see 15-10% placements out of degrees like those because our current system isn't rigorous and becoming 100% publicly funded with no loans will not make it more rigorous. Public education wouldn't be in such shit shape if this was a magic bullet.

They can't find qualified applicants *for the wages they're paying.

Pretty sure project managers making 130k+ or program managers making 200k+ are adequately paid. Pretty sure people commanding 140k+ for Citrix and Office 365 certifications are commanding a fair wage.

You place a lot of stock in anecdotes, and very little in statistics.

So say the man who doesn't present his own arguments, and only responds to them. The anecdotes are verifiable news. We just had one boy shot after taking part in a assassination attempt by filling a car full of bullet holes as it drove past and then he got shot by the police after a foot chase JUST as the gun fell out of his hand. Then we had a foster daughter attack her two sisters, and getting shot by the police because she had her sister pinned to the car and was hauling back to stab her in the face after yelling she would kill her sister. If you want statistics, go look at minority on minority homicide rates. A huge number of people who are the offenders in this case are people under 18. It's not even a new problem, but one going on since the 80s.

Edited at 2021/05/04 01:28:22
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/04 01:30:23 No.1941896
>>1941847
>Chicago spends 40k per student, charter schools in the same state charge 3k and give better futures. Money isnt everything. A lack of funding is not the root of all social cures. https://chronicleillinois.com/government/numbers-show-wide-disparity-in-classroom-spending-in-illinois-public-schools/#:~:text=The Chicago Public School spends,in the state of Illinois.
...
...
...
Did you read this article?
...
...
...
>We have been shoveling cash onto "poor" schools there to make spending per student rival and even excede private education.... the students still get pregnant, stab each other, drop out and assault teachers
Your substantiation for claims like this is a single isolated school for special needs students ranged pre-k to kindergarten that has won numerous awards for excellence?

Also,
https://thefundchicago.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Equity-And-School-Funding-In-CPS_spreads.pdf
What Chicago actually spends per capita is 16k per student, that ONE AND ONLY school which had 40k per student shoveled into it not by the government, but through grants and private parental investment, is not an example of how 'shoveling money into a problem doesn't solve it,' it's an example of how investment yields excellence.

>charter schools in the same state charge 3k and give better futures
Charter schools are public schools funded by the government. They are required to receive the same federal, state, and local funding as is required to be given to any other local school. I do not know where your $3000 figure came from. Charter schools do not charge anything. All charter schools are tuition free.

>That America is competitive worldwide just means that we still have intelligent people in America who went above and beyond
American exceptionalism is a myth unsubstantiated by any evidence whatsoever.

>You have industries with high graduation rates that complain that they can't find qualified applicants and that is due to the fact that the colleges aren't turning out qualified people
They can't find qualified applicants
*for the wages they're paying.

>college
1500 of our 4000 colleges are affordable and public. They cater to around 75% of students. The rest are overpriced, private, and profitable. We can't afford new colleges, but those private colleges can afford new wings. Saying the money isn't there is not quite right. The money is there. And it's private.

>16 year old with a knife, having slashed one foster sister
You place a lot of stock in anecdotes, and very little in statistics.

>When the government got involved in paying for education the market controls for useless degrees or bad teaching went away because the bank no longer had to worry about getting their loan payment
This is controlled in public schools, given that public schools limit the quantity of applicants allowed per degree program.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/04 01:30:55 No.1941897
I mean hell... look at grow with google. They literally made that program because they can't find qualified people fast enough and some businesses are already preferring google trained individuals to university educated individuals -- paying them the same market rate.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/04 01:32:04 No.1941898
Sorry, I shat up the edit and ended up with a new post.
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Furrynomous 2021/05/04 01:32:17 No.1941899
I ducked up and editted my previous reply instead of a fresh one, but if you want to continue the arguments, they're up there now.

I'll add on I mean look at grow with google. They literally made that program because they can't find qualified people fast enough and some businesses are already preferring google trained individuals to university educated individuals -- paying them the same market rate.
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Furrynomous 2021/05/04 01:32:52 No.1941900
Lol we both did :p
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/04 02:14:17 No.1941909
>A substantiation yes. How many do I need to give? How many will you wave away as "patriotsgunsflagboner" sources? It is also remarkable that you would complain given that your source is... a image graph in isolation

Okay, your claim.
>Chicago spends 40k per student
Federal statistics shows that
>Chicago spends 16k per student
Your claim that CHICAGO SPENDS 40K PER STUDENT is based on the fact that 1/660 public schools spends 40k, when the average is 16k. Your claim is false.

>charter schools in the same state charge 3k and give better futures
Charter schools are public schools, and they don't charge 3k, they are free, your claim is false. They also receive the same state and federal funding as public schools. The fact that only 3k of that is devoted to students per capita is a result of the school's budgeting policy. The school you are referring to from the article also received a lower rating than the 40k school, naturally, so the bit that you can get a better education from such schools also appears to be false.

It is impossible for you to get enough evidence to substantiate your claims because they're false claims.

>See above where I said their education situation has been declared an emergency at the state and federal level? That has increased the funding of the schools in the city in general
They raised the funding up to the national average reaching 16k per student spending, but most of the extra money has been going to repairs because the schools in that area were falling apart. In reality, there's little left for the students.

>That a special needs school is doing so well is remarkable. Very young children with special needs are the hardest to educate and they're managing it with far less money. There is no white privilege at work here either, given that the school is dominant minority
>The school receiving 40k isn't achieving excellence. It's dismal
The special needs school isn't the charter school. It's the one receiving 40k. White privilege hadn't crossed my mind, but yes, it is mentioned that the 40k/capita school does just so happen to be primarily white.

In summary: no, you didn't really read the article you were linking.

Edited at 2021/05/04 02:26:10
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Furrynomous 2021/05/04 02:25:57 No.1941911
>Chicago spends 40k per student

No. I said some schools did. That the entire state overall does not spend as much as some schools in Chicago. Essentially, your hypothesis was a lack of funding. I'm saying, the reality is several schools ARE funded quite well, above average for the state, and it isn't a magic bullet. What's so fucking hard about that?

>Charter schools are public schools, and they don't charge 3k, they are free, your claim is false.

It is from the article. Sorry that my language isn't perfect, but the student stock price was 3k. Plain as day.

>The special needs school isn't the charter school. It's the one receiving 40k. White privilege hadn't crossed my mind, but yes, it is mentioned that the 40k/capita school does just so happen to be primarily white.

I think you're confused. Passages’ was 46% black, 7% white and 17% asian. Not sure how you're getting majority white from that.

“It’s important to remember that differences in spending between schools can arise from many factors, including positive ones,” Shaw said. “For example, a commitment to equity may result in tailoring resources to schools based on students’ needs at those schools.”

There is even that statement justifying the disparity. If you were the same person who said before you were for equality, equal opportunity, not equity, then Shaw is directly indicating that the distribution of money isn't based on that. It's based on trying to correct equity issues.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/04 02:57:06 No.1941918
>Chicago spends 40k per student
>No. I said some schools did
>>1941847
>Chicago spends 40k per student
This is you, stating unequivocally that Chicago spends 40k per student.
And this is you
>>1941911
changing your argument after you've been proven wrong. That is not what you said, as evidenced by that link, to what you said. See, this is that 'evidence' thing I was talking about.

>I'm saying, the reality is several schools ARE funded quite well, above average for the state, and it isn't a magic bullet.
But the thing is that the ONLY one you linked to with above-average funding also displayed above-average performance. Your conclusion that more money doesn't yield superior performance is odd given that the evidence you personally provided states the very opposite.

>student stock price was 3k.
Stock price? What does that even mean?

>Passages was 46% black, 7% white and 17% asian. Not sure how you're getting majority white from that
Passages is a school for immigrants and refugees pre-k through grade 8. It is not a pre-k to kindergarten only school that specializes in special needs students. The place spending 40k per student is the one that won the childhood award of excellence for inclusion of students with special needs and nearly half of its students suffering from disability.

>There is even that statement justifying the disparity
Not the same person. And the disparity is likely caused by district zoning. On average, 45% of public school funding is from the state, 45% local, and 10% federal (inexact figures, but a decent ballpark). A school for immigrants and refugees is probably in a district populated by immigrants and refugees, which means poor. That 45% that was supposed to be locally funded turns out to be $5, but the state/federal funding remains the same not accounting for the lack of local funding. The 45k/capita school is primarily white: rich people district. They get the same state and federal funding, but their higher income levels result in the quantity funded locally being significantly higher.

The district funding system is an abortion.
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Furrynomous 2021/05/04 03:54:20 No.1941926
This is why if Malcom X was still alive today, the black race would be in a much better alternate reality. No more crimes, people learning how to take care of their own lives, etc. But nope, shit had to happen where the rich or whoever the fuck it was killed him because his solution was better than MLK's idea and the fact that they wanted blacks to still depend on their stupid ass. Good example is the fucking riots of last year, where even black men and women had their stores crapped on because of stupid people who thinked that "Oh, it's fine! You can rebuild later! Now is my time to steal and burn shit!"

Fuck this whole agenda shit.

Edited at 2021/05/04 03:58:06
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Furrynomous 2021/05/04 06:42:59 No.1941971
>>1941918
Are you the one who likes Malcom X over MLK? Why exactly? Isn't treatment of being equal for all races better than races living away from each other? Just doing only business in terms of technology and stuff?
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/04 08:07:24 No.1942002
>>1941971
No. Not the same person.

The thing about Malcom X was that he was pushing for independence as a mindset. That solutions would have to come from within the community, and that putting yourself in a position of dependence would prolong how long it takes to become equals. He wanted a recovery, a spirit, a hardnosed way of being similar to how the Asian community came roaring back after the world war despite the fact that their land was seized, their assets were stolen, their bank accounts stolen. I mean, that internment was more recent than the end of slavery... and now those same people out perform white people.

I can certainly see why he valued self sufficiency. Far better to interact with outside groups by choice, and pragmatically, then to do it because you are begging after scraps.

It takes some understanding of the fact that he grew over time and that his early works were refined later after an international pilgrimage of sorts.

I think what he wanted, at the end of his life, was for black people to have cold relations (not hateful, not angry, just slow to trust, slow to talk, slow to move on) with white people while strengthening themselves up. Coming back to the table later as strong, healed and on such footing that black people were no longer forced to be the football in the game, but a team of their own.
>>
Furrynomous 2021/05/07 11:30:06 No.1943851
>>1932216
>>1940048
Yeah. But it's still better than the people who don't admit that they need to see a thejehova's witness, while making fun of people who do. The stigma in America is horrid.

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